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| raed |
 Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:40 am Post subject: Critical Temperature |
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U know , Critical temperature : is the temperature above which the gas can not be liquified irrespective to the pressure applied.
So . What is the Volume the gas reaches or that means that there will be a limit at which the gas becomes incompressible ??
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Raed Ahmed Çeleby
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| Bunbury |
| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Supercritical fluids are still compressible, but are neither liquid nor gas. They don't become incompressible until and unless you increase the pressure enough to get to the solid phase. |
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| raed |
| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:24 am Post subject: |
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U mean we can get solid helium at a temperature higher than critical temperature by applying pressure ?
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Raed Ahmed Çeleby
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| SteveF |
| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: |
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It is possible, but it takes extremely high pressures -- more than you can achieve in an ordinary laboratory. For example, the core of the planet Jupiter is believed to consist of hydrogen in a metallic state.
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| William McCormick |
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| SteveF wrote: |
It is possible, but it takes extremely high pressures -- more than you can achieve in an ordinary laboratory. For example, the core of the planet Jupiter is believed to consist of hydrogen in a metallic state. |
You are talking about something that would be highly unstable. I doubt highly if there is solid helium in the core of Jupiter.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
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| PritishKamat |
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| William McCormick wrote: |
| SteveF wrote: |
It is possible, but it takes extremely high pressures -- more than you can achieve in an ordinary laboratory. For example, the core of the planet Jupiter is believed to consist of hydrogen in a metallic state. |
You are talking about something that would be highly unstable. I doubt highly if there is solid helium in the core of Jupiter. |
why so? by the way, its supposed to be hydrogen not helium.
when root mean square speed of gas molecules is lesser than escape velocity (say, on Jupiter), gas is prevented from escaping its gravitational pull. Now, if the pull is too great, so great, that the gas molecules cannot move despite of high temperature, the gas becomes a solid. So, this 'condensation' doesn't require molecules to have van der walls forces. Hence, there is possibility of solidified helium in Jupiter's core.
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| William McCormick |
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| PritishKamat wrote: |
| William McCormick wrote: |
| SteveF wrote: |
It is possible, but it takes extremely high pressures -- more than you can achieve in an ordinary laboratory. For example, the core of the planet Jupiter is believed to consist of hydrogen in a metallic state. |
You are talking about something that would be highly unstable. I doubt highly if there is solid helium in the core of Jupiter. |
why so? by the way, its supposed to be hydrogen not helium.
when root mean square speed of gas molecules is lesser than escape velocity (say, on Jupiter), gas is prevented from escaping its gravitational pull. Now, if the pull is too great, so great, that the gas molecules cannot move despite of high temperature, the gas becomes a solid. So, this 'condensation' doesn't require molecules to have van der walls forces. Hence, there is possibility of solidified helium in Jupiter's core. |
I don't think solid hydrogen or helium would be a good thing as a planets core. And I certainly do not believe it is possible. As ambient radiation went to pass through a super, short of electron structure, like solid hydrogen or helium, an ARC ray would form that would wipe out most of the universe.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
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| Dishmaster |
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| William McCormick wrote: |
I don't think solid hydrogen or helium would be a good thing as a planets core. And I certainly do not believe it is possible. As ambient radiation went to pass through a super, short of electron structure, like solid hydrogen or helium, an ARC ray would form that would wipe out most of the universe. |
1. Why? Don't you need oxygen for combustion to work?
2. If so, doesn't that prove your ideas wrong?
3. What is a "super, short of electron structure"? |
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| William McCormick |
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| Dishmaster wrote: |
| William McCormick wrote: |
I don't think solid hydrogen or helium would be a good thing as a planets core. And I certainly do not believe it is possible. As ambient radiation went to pass through a super, short of electron structure, like solid hydrogen or helium, an ARC ray would form that would wipe out most of the universe. |
1. Why? Don't you need oxygen for combustion to work?
2. If so, doesn't that prove your ideas wrong?
3. What is a "super, short of electron structure"? |
I am talking about shocking. Have you ever seen pure gases like nitrogen or oxygen, turn to a plasma ray? No burning, low voltage and high amperage actually, will do it. Once it is excited to conduction.
If you try to pass, that amount of natural ambient radiation, that passes through all things, through a frozen core, of helium or hydrogen, that size. The ARC or plasma ray would wipe out the solar system.
That is why they can float magnets on a super cold object. The object is already emitting an ARC ray. That the magnet just repels off of. Imagine a very large frozen object?
We were taught about absolute zero, as something very dangerous to play with. Because, if you shock something near absolute zero, minus 469 degrees or something there about's, the object will ARC till destruction. Much like a Cathode will. Both have the same polarity.
When you drop super frozen things on the ground, they shatter. Because the object is so dense. And ambient radiation that has to pass through it, has to shrink the atoms to expand the gap between the atoms. When it does this it loosens or breaks the bonds. So when a little bit of voltage from a fall, is put through the object, it is overloaded and shatters. Sometimes called an explosion.
It is just like heat treating. A sudden change in temperature causes the bonds of metal to break. So does super freezing.
I was working in a place, a scientific research center, and I put my ice cream in one of the cryogenic freezers. I was laughing because I was thinking about becoming the good humor bomber, ha-ha. My world is a lot funnier then yours.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 7:47 am Post subject: |
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the hydrogen is not "Frozen", it is metallic! The immense pressure and heat causes the metallic hydrogen, not cold!
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| William McCormick |
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| SuperNatendo wrote: |
| the hydrogen is not "Frozen", it is metallic! The immense pressure and heat causes the metallic hydrogen, not cold! |
If a substance is solid it is in its frozen state. Upon the pressure coming off, assuming you can turn a liquid into a solid with pressure, it will absorb a tremendous amount of energy. As if it was frozen.
That is why so much energy is released when you compress something.
Compress a gas, it is more obvious, and easier to do and see the heat released. But the same would be true of compressing a liquid to a solid. I have never seen a pure element compressed to a solid. I have seen compounds compressed to a semi-solid state for split seconds.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
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| (Q) |
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| William McCormick wrote: |
If you try to pass, that amount of natural ambient radiation, that passes through all things, through a frozen core, of helium or hydrogen, that size. The ARC or plasma ray would wipe out the solar system. |
NOT THE SOLAR SYSTEM, BILLY!?!? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! 
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| When you drop super frozen things on the ground, they shatter. Because the object is so dense. |
Always wear a toque, Billy.
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| ha-ha. My world is a lot funnier then yours. |
Yes, yes it is, Billy.
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| Tenacity |
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| William McCormick wrote: |
That is why they can float magnets on a super cold object. The object is already emitting an ARC ray. That the magnet just repels off of. Imagine a very large frozen object?
We were taught about absolute zero, as something very dangerous to play with. Because, if you shock something near absolute zero, minus 469 degrees or something there about's, the object will ARC till destruction. Much like a Cathode will. Both have the same polarity.
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Sorry for doing this again Will. You mentioned in a later post that if something is solid it is frozen. Ok I get that. However even if it is 'frozen' into a hyper-solid state it does not mean it is at absolute zero. Infact consider the centre of the earth with a solid iron core surrounded by liquid iron and sulphur. Understanding that the melting point of iron is 1538 °C or 1811 K if we're to deal with your absolute zero then the absolute centre of the earth should be liquid as it is surrounded by "the hot stuff". This is not the case however because of the amount of pressure maintained upon it. Now we observe hydrogen, an extremely stable atom, and we can understand that even though its melting point is even lower than that of Iron the amount of pressure on it on Jupiter would be far greater meaning that, yes infact, it could be compressed to a solid with out Jupiter 'Firin' it's Lazah' and destroying half the solar system.
I hope my explanation has calmed you all into thinking that Jupiter is not any time soon going to explode from an "Ambient Radiation" (Could someone please explain that to me?) disaster and rain a fiery death upon us all simply because of non-super-cold yet frozen Hydrogen. |
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| William McCormick |
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Tenacity wrote: |
| William McCormick wrote: |
That is why they can float magnets on a super cold object. The object is already emitting an ARC ray. That the magnet just repels off of. Imagine a very large frozen object?
We were taught about absolute zero, as something very dangerous to play with. Because, if you shock something near absolute zero, minus 469 degrees or something there about's, the object will ARC till destruction. Much like a Cathode will. Both have the same polarity.
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Sorry for doing this again Will. You mentioned in a later post that if something is solid it is frozen. Ok I get that. However even if it is 'frozen' into a hyper-solid state it does not mean it is at absolute zero. Infact consider the centre of the earth with a solid iron core surrounded by liquid iron and sulphur. Understanding that the melting point of iron is 1538 °C or 1811 K if we're to deal with your absolute zero then the absolute centre of the earth should be liquid as it is surrounded by "the hot stuff". This is not the case however because of the amount of pressure maintained upon it. Now we observe hydrogen, an extremely stable atom, and we can understand that even though its melting point is even lower than that of Iron the amount of pressure on it on Jupiter would be far greater meaning that, yes infact, it could be compressed to a solid with out Jupiter 'Firin' it's Lazah' and destroying half the solar system.
I hope my explanation has calmed you all into thinking that Jupiter is not any time soon going to explode from an "Ambient Radiation" (Could someone please explain that to me?) disaster and rain a fiery death upon us all simply because of non-super-cold yet frozen Hydrogen. |
I agree totally, that the temperature in a theoretical frozen or solid state, at abnormal pressure in theory could be higher. It probably will not change anything really though.
In the case of hydrogen it would be the equivalent to absolute zero. And pose the same impossible high instability to keep it in that state.
More then likely for a split second under destructive conditions you could create a semi-solid condition.
I am not of the school that the core of the earth is solid iron. I am also not of the school that the pressures will solidify liquids and sustain that.
From a lot of testing they did, years ago, it showed that often the substance will undergo, destructive, destruction before turning into a solid at higher temperatures, and increased pressure.
If you take iron for instance. And you made a square bar of iron, 100 feet wide by 100 feet deep, by 1700 feet high. Under certain circumstance, the whole base of the iron might collapse upon itself. Actually semi-liquefy. Like during an earth quake.
So even if there was a condition in the core of the earth and it did have a huge amount of pressure upon it. Between the constant bombardment, of ambient radiation, the movements. A solid iron core to me would just seem impossible. It is more then likely a semi-solid.
That is what I was taught, and given many reasons for it being so. I do not remember them all to be honest. But there were a lot of reasons. The most likely is that the liquid in the core, keeps the planet at a reasonable speed.
I also believe that from thermal testing that the predictions were that the core was in fact molten.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
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| William McCormick |
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Tenacity wrote: |
| I hope my explanation has calmed you all into thinking that Jupiter is not any time soon going to explode from an "Ambient Radiation" (Could someone please explain that to me?) disaster and rain a fiery death upon us all simply because of non-super-cold yet frozen Hydrogen. |
Wow that was my rainbow at the end of my parade. My happy place. Ha-ha.
I do not believe the core of Jupiter is hydrogen. And I certainly do not believe Jupiter is going to explode. When I was about ten, the estimated time for making Jupiter habitable was 50 years. Using perpetual motion, energy to heat or cool the surface, the core, or the atmosphere. Or blast or disintegrate materials into what we needed.
Some of the equipment to do this seemed a bit scary to some. Giant vacuum spheres lifting heavy loads into the stratosphere before kicking in the engines to create escape velocity. Giant disintegration equipment over the heads of less then moral individuals scared them.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
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