| Author |
Message
|
| Raymond K |
 Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: Cosmic Radiation and Astronauts |
 |
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 111
|
| When astronauts go into space they are at risk of highly energized ion particles destroying their DNA and perhaps causing cancer. Major forms of protection against this radiation on earth is the earth's atmosphere and earth's magnetic field. Currently on space missions astronauts use aluminum and plastic sheets for protection against this radiation. What if they also created a rather strong magnetic field around the space shuttle? Would that help deflect the ion particles away from the shuttle and decrease the risk of radiation damages? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| Jinn |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Freshman
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 12
|
| That theory sounds like it would work but what would you use to create the magnetic force that is controlled enough to deflect the ion particles correctly? I think that if you were to use an electromagnet that it would be more cost effective to use the sheets. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 4016
Location: Scotland
|
I agree with Jinn that the probably the mass of equipment needed to deflect particles would be better employed in using more conventional shielding. Moreover a magnetic shield would not deflect high energy neutral particels, while these would be constrained by shielding.
_________________
The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine it is weirder than we can imagine. J.B.S.Haldane. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Raymond K |
| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 111
|
| Ophiolite wrote: |
| I agree with Jinn that the probably the mass of equipment needed to deflect particles would be better employed in using more conventional shielding. Moreover a magnetic shield would not deflect high energy neutral particels, while these would be constrained by shielding. |
What about a slight magnetic field to improve protection? This along with shielding. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 4016
Location: Scotland
|
| Raymond K wrote: |
| What about a slight magnetic field to improve protection? This along with shielding. |
I haven't done any calculations (I am not to sure how to.  ), but it just seems likely to me that generating any effective electromagnetic shielding would take a substantial mass of generatng equipment that would outweigh (pun intended) the benefits. There might also be issues of intereference between the shielding and sensors/ communication equipment/etc.
_________________
The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine it is weirder than we can imagine. J.B.S.Haldane. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| bit4bit |
| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Bachelors Degree
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 478
|
I don't think there's any point in having magnetic fields to sheild us from radiation, when static materials, which require no power can do it well enough for us.
Beta radiation is the one that causes damage to us, and it can be stopped easily by sheets of aluminium.
_________________
Chance favours the prepared mind. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| UKDutyPaid |
| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Freshman
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 77
Location: London
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Raymond K |
| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 111
|
| bit4bit wrote: |
I don't think there's any point in having magnetic fields to sheild us from radiation, when static materials, which require no power can do it well enough for us.
Beta radiation is the one that causes damage to us, and it can be stopped easily by sheets of aluminium. |
I thought that the earth's magnetosphere defelected SOME of the ion radiation.
I am not saying that they should use a magnetic field and not aluminum, I am saying aluminum does not protect them 100% and it can even produce radiation itself.
Mabye you think having a magnetic field does not do anything because your following the space trips that stay close enough to earth, and in the earth's magnetosphere, but if your going somewhere as far as mars, your are in much greater danger. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Scifor Refugee |
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 947
|
| Raymond K wrote: |
I thought that the earth's magnetosphere defelected SOME of the ion radiation.
I am not saying that they should use a magnetic field and not aluminum, I am saying aluminum does not protect them 100% and it can even produce radiation itself.
Mabye you think having a magnetic field does not do anything because your following the space trips that stay close enough to earth, and in the earth's magnetosphere, but if your going somewhere as far as mars, your are in much greater danger. |
Contrary to popular belief, the earth's magnetic field doesn't actually do that much to protect us from radiation. Most of our protection comes from the earth's atmosphere. Astronauts in low earth orbit still need radiation protection, even though they are still deep inside the earth's magnetic field. Even simply flying in a plane will greatly increase the amount of radiation that you're exposed to, since you are up high and there is a lot less air between you and the incoming radiation.
Anyway, I think everyone else here is probably correct - you might be able to get some protection from a big magnetic field that you generated on your spacecraft, but you would probably get even more protection if you used to same amount of mass to just add more shielding. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Raymond K |
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 111
|
| Scifor Refugee wrote: |
| Raymond K wrote: |
I thought that the earth's magnetosphere defelected SOME of the ion radiation.
I am not saying that they should use a magnetic field and not aluminum, I am saying aluminum does not protect them 100% and it can even produce radiation itself.
Mabye you think having a magnetic field does not do anything because your following the space trips that stay close enough to earth, and in the earth's magnetosphere, but if your going somewhere as far as mars, your are in much greater danger. |
Contrary to popular belief, the earth's magnetic field doesn't actually do that much to protect us from radiation. Most of our protection comes from the earth's atmosphere. Astronauts in low earth orbit still need radiation protection, even though they are still deep inside the earth's magnetic field. Even simply flying in a plane will greatly increase the amount of radiation that you're exposed to, since you are up high and there is a lot less air between you and the incoming radiation.
Anyway, I think everyone else here is probably correct - you might be able to get some protection from a big magnetic field that you generated on your spacecraft, but you would probably get even more protection if you used to same amount of mass to just add more shielding. |
How can you solve the fact that these shields create their own radiation from being hit by radiation? This is currently an issue and is stopping NASA from reaching Mars. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 4016
Location: Scotland
|
| Raymond K wrote: |
| This is currently an issue and is stopping NASA from reaching Mars. |
The only things stopping NASA from reaching Mars are budget and imagination.
_________________
The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine it is weirder than we can imagine. J.B.S.Haldane. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Pong |
| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Senior
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 309
|
Imagination can be bought.
Even with a much larger budget, it would be unwise to squander that on Mars photo-op, in my opinion, when there are so many things to do. It's like, the only thing stopping you from visiting Guam, is, Tahiti, Bali, Hawaii... need I go on? NASA may dodge a bad *cough* Bush *cough* idea by saying "ah, darn, not enough money". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Raymond K |
| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 111
|
| Well what would be an efficient way of keeping radiation levels on the level they are supposed to be? Currently going to Mars would exceed radiation levels that NASA set. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 4016
Location: Scotland
|
| Raymond K wrote: |
| Well what would be an efficient way of keeping radiation levels on the level they are supposed to be? Currently going to Mars would exceed radiation levels that NASA set. |
Use a larger, more massive spacecraft. Store water in the outer walls. Reduce this mass by using Zubrin's approach of 'living off the land'. i.e. extract the bulk of the fuel necessary for the return flight by a previously launched automatic lander.
_________________
The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine it is weirder than we can imagine. J.B.S.Haldane. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Scifor Refugee |
| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 947
|
| Raymond K wrote: |
| Well what would be an efficient way of keeping radiation levels on the level they are supposed to be? Currently going to Mars would exceed radiation levels that NASA set. |
I'm pretty sure you're wrong about this. As I recall, NASA calculated that for a trip to Mars that was 6 months in space going there, 18 months on the surface, and another 6 months coming back, that would put astronauts just over the standard safety limit. So there would be a slight risk from radiation, but it would probably be a much small risk than the chance of the mars lander crashing while it tried to land. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
