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| Schizo |
 Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: Constructing Society |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 32
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There is a nagging concept which, after being introduced to many ideas in our time, I have thought of. That is; it may be possible to simulate society with a computer program.
It utilizes the idea that the average human has a basic set of psychological attributes which can be represented by values which decrease or increase based upon external stimuli. The external stimuli can be variable but not increase or decrease over a certain point. Representing the idea that the human brain is limited to its reactions.
In theory the idea is to build a system with interdependent parts that use increasing and decreasing values which are based on those basic psychological attributes.
There are several goals of this concept; one is to see the natural geometric formations societies form, another is to see how different societies effect one another, and to see if a relative equilibrium could form.
Anyways I admit that within the realm of science I may not have acquired as much knowledge as some others, but I do feel that, even though I present this in a simplistic form, I have the ability over time to demonstrate what it is I am talking about.
If in fact something similar to this nature has been conceived I can only hope that within my lifetime I can produce something of equal operation. It has been an object of some interest, and would love to, if circumstance permitted, be able to construct it on my own. |
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| paralith |
| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 959
Location: Washington, DC
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It's definitely a very cool idea. However, while I agree that human actions and attributes are limited, they are still highly complex and far from completely understood. I think a lot more neurobiological and behavioral research would need to be done before this program could be accurately created.
As long as we're on the subject of of using the huge amounts of computer power as would be required for such a program, I would imagine putting it to use to try and understand all those complex human attributes. I envision vast databases of detailed neurological and behavioral information on thousands if not millions of people. This database would be be given to a program that will search it for patterns, a program that is "taught" where to start looking by researchers who input already known patterns and mechanisms. It would find correlations, connections, all sorts of patterns and relationships that it might take us mere humans decades to discover. It will bring them to our attention, and then we will take those patterns, form hypotheses, and test them. I think it would do wonders for the depth and speed of research in the field.
Of course, the ethical implications of feeding details about your personal mental condition into a giant database would probably be the main stopping point, not to mention the sheer effort it would take to gather that much information from that many people. Oh well. One day, perhaps.
_________________
Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
~Jean-Paul Sartre
Monkeys in Clothes - hosted by SFN blogs |
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| qwertyman |
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 62
Location: England
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Who says we cant start small? try making a very simple computer programe, it doesnt even have to simulate people realisticaly. you can work from there, keep adding to it as our/your knowledge of the human mind increases.
_________________
'if one man beleaves in fairies its called madness
if one million men beleave in faries its called religion'- Richard Dawkings
(but i think he was quoting someone when he said it...but who cares) |
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| Cosmo |
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:22 am Post subject: Re: Constructing Society |
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Forum Senior
Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 352
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| Schizo wrote: |
There is a nagging concept which, after being introduced to many ideas in our time, I have thought of. That is; it may be possible to simulate society with a computer program.
It utilizes the idea that the average human has a basic set of psychological attributes which can be represented by values which decrease or increase based upon external stimuli. The external stimuli can be variable but not increase or decrease over a certain point. Representing the idea that the human brain is limited to its reactions.
In theory the idea is to build a system with interdependent parts that use increasing and decreasing values which are based on those basic psychological attributes.
There are several goals of this concept; one is to see the natural geometric formations societies form, another is to see how different societies effect one another, and to see if a relative equilibrium could form.
Anyways I admit that within the realm of science I may not have acquired as much knowledge as some others, but I do feel that, even though I present this in a simplistic form, I have the ability over time to demonstrate what it is I am talking about.
If in fact something similar to this nature has been conceived I can only hope that within my lifetime I can produce something of equal operation. It has been an object of some interest, and would love to, if circumstance permitted, be able to construct it on my own. |
You do not need to complicate a US Constitutional society.
It mandates a representative government 'of the people, by the people and for the people as Lincoln said in finishing his Gettysburg Address.
So the most important way to do this is to guarantee the 'security' of the peoples lifestyles.
And how do you do that?
Well, My Brand of Socialism does just that.
It guarantees jobs for all US citizens, (no unemployment), guaranteed healthcare and pensions.
Cosmo
See below:
http://www.thescienceforum.com/Democratic-Socialism-%28US%29-10264t.php |
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| serpicojr |
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 853
Location: JRZ
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| To some degree economics (e.g. microeconomics, utility theory, game theory) aims to do just what you're describing: quantize human behavior and make predictions from models thereof. The basic psychological unit considered in economics is utility, and the basic human goal is to maximize utility. You might be able to fit your ideas within this framework. |
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| UKDutyPaid |
| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 77
Location: London
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It is certainly a possibility. I'd argue that some computer games do this to a degree, allbeit a simple one. With 'living' cities where people go about their business and react to your actions accordingly. GTA, SimCity, SimEarth etc etc.
And as has been suggested, we can start small - as all computer software/hardware does. I saw a very interesting program about a simple experiment to simulate basic/celular life forms. The screen was split into hundreds of small squares. One or two squares were selected and filled in. Then a very simple set of rules were applied as to how the filled squares would interact with their surrounding empty squares. I think they used literally only 3 or 4 rules for each run of the experiment. eg if square is empty then fill it.
When the simulation was run, the results looked frighteningly fluid, natural and biological. With many fascinating patterns and repeating flows emerging.
Since complex things are just a collection of simple things, I think the above examples point at our ability to simulate the simple, which in time can be combined and adapted to simulate the complex...
matrix anybody?  |
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| Cosmo |
| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:07 am Post subject: |
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Forum Senior
Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 352
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| serpicojr wrote: |
| To some degree economics (e.g. microeconomics, utility theory, game theory) aims to do just what you're describing: quantize human behavior and make predictions from models thereof. The basic psychological unit considered in economics is utility, and the basic human goal is to maximize utility. You might be able to fit your ideas within this framework. |
Well, if you read my article, you will notice that my system allows free enterprise.
This would include all the essential goods needed for survival like food (farmers), distributers (grocers) and all other such essentials that constitute free enterprize.
The government would regulate these and all other such businesses to give their empoyees the healcare and pensions that are needed.
What unemployment there may be would be filled by government jobs to guaratee full employment.
With this kind of guaranteed security, they would not need religious indoctrination or savings accouints since they would always have work or the two other necessities.
So when there is no need to 'hoard' ones dollars, there would always be a fully thriving economy.
Cosmo |
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| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 4016
Location: Scotland
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Cosmo,
your comments are interesting, but off topic. This is a thread about how to simulate a society in software, not about how to set up an ideal society. Could we stay on track please.
Thanks
Ophiolite
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The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine it is weirder than we can imagine. J.B.S.Haldane. |
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