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| Calculus, how helpful is it? |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
 Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:46 am Post subject: Calculus, how helpful is it? |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 2684
Location: UKGBNI, England, Derbyshire
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Maths has always been my nemesis, but I am naturally easy to understand it. But at the moment my theories have hit a brick wall, which I knew the wall was coming (as I said it is my nemesis). I've used algebra but when it comes to re arange the forumla I get stupid and incorrect numbers. It screws up m theories. I managed using algebra to figure about the maximum velocity that a particle (given its own properties) can travel at, I was astonished at that.  . However, my theory on time travel needs a little more backing. I added all the relevant calculations from my theories (constants rather (those greek letters  )), but now it is so long winded and complicated, algebra does not cut the mustard.
Just so you know what I'm doing, I have variables, intergers needed, numerous ways of accounting for fluctuations in certain values, heck I even need to learn about 4 vectors and tensors. But I am wondering, is calculus a good place to start. My time travel theory, theory, is complete. I even have a few early alegbraic equations that work to aid it, but I really need to know what will help me most, and if calculus is a good place to start.
Thanks,
SVWillmer.
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"There is no knowledge, that is not power" - Ralph Waldo Emerson. |
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| serpicojr |
| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 871
Location: JRZ
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| You can't do physics without calculus. So, yes, learn it. |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:47 am Post subject: |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
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Location: UKGBNI, England, Derbyshire
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OK  . Where would I start?
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| serpicojr |
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:25 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
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At the very beginning.
The best thing, in my opinion, would be to take a course in calculus. However, methinks you won't jump for this option. So pick up a college calculus textbook and, if you'd like, a solutions manual. Then start going through it. But you'll have to go through it like Demen Tolden was--i.e., very slowly, carefully, and thoroughly, making sure at each step that you understand what's going on rather than letting yourself get bored or frustrated and speeding ahead. Patience is key. This is not something you're going to learn overnight. Of course, we here in the math forum would be more than happy to help you out with your studies.
Now, let me reiterate, you can't do physics without calculus. Calculus deals with instantaneous rates of change, which is the lifeblood of physics. If you're serious about physics, you need to be serious about calculus. Since you're already familiar with physics, you should start to appreciate the value of calculus as soon as you learn the derivatives of polynomials--for example, you'll see why it's consistent why the position at time t of an object thrown up at velocity v0 from height s0 is:
s(t) = s0 + v0 t + g t2/2 |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:24 am Post subject: |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 2684
Location: UKGBNI, England, Derbyshire
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Thank you.  I'll look into where I can start, and see if I can find a good textbook.
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| bit4bit |
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Forum Bachelors Degree
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
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There's some online calculus courses too, like the one Demen was using, that are good. But it depends whether you want to read of a computer screen or not. Personally I prefer a book, of which there are plenty.
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| Harold14370 |
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Calculus, how helpful is it? |
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Forum Professor
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition wrote: |
| I've used algebra but when it comes to re arange the forumla I get stupid and incorrect numbers. It screws up m theories. |
If you are having problems with the algebra, maybe you ought to start there before taking on calculus.
| Quote: |
Just so you know what I'm doing, I have variables, intergers needed, numerous ways of accounting for fluctuations in certain values, heck I even need to learn about 4 vectors and tensors. But I am wondering, is calculus a good place to start. My time travel theory, theory, is complete. I even have a few early alegbraic equations that work to aid it, but I really need to know what will help me most, and if calculus is a good place to start.
Thanks,
SVWillmer. |
I can't tell from this what you are trying to do, or if calculus will help you do it. Would you care to share any of your theories? |
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| serpicojr |
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| You're right, Harold, that SVW should hone his algebra skills before jumping to calculus. So I suppose the real question, SVW, is: what math classes have you taken? In the long tun, though, I'd really like to encourage SVW to get calculus under his belt, whether he really needs it or not, because... well, really, he needs it to do theoretical physics. |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:45 am Post subject: |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 2684
Location: UKGBNI, England, Derbyshire
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I've done about 2/10ths of an A-level course, but had to leave it because of expenses. I don't know a great deal. All I'm doing with my theories (in maths terms), is putting together values that are direct with each other (i.e mass and the speed of light and mulitpying them), and then dividing by another number which affects the efficiency of the sum of the multiples. I don't want to post my ideas because, well one thing and another, sorry, I'm not ready for scientific criticism. 
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| serpicojr |
| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
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I seem to remember going through this discussion with you before and not getting a straight answer. You've got to remember I'm in the states and have no idea what A-level means, much less what is covered in such a course. So it will only help you if you can be more explicit.
It seems like you might be ashamed about your level of math education. Don't be--you know what you know, but you want to learn more, and that's what matters. And consider this: I feel like you know more physics than I do, and I'm getting my PhD in a year. I'm not ashamed about that, because physics isn't my deal. Math is not your thing, so it's not a surprise you don't have advanced math under your belt!
So if you could let me know which of these topics you've covered, that'd be great.
1. Algebra
a. a "first year" course in the states: solving for variables, factoring quadratic equations, simultaneous equations
b. a "second year" course in the states: ellipses, hyperbolas, parabolas; solving and graphing inequalities; maybe covering exponentials and logs
2. Geometry: a proof-based Euclidean geometry course, working from Euclid's axioms (maybe called postulates in the course), learning theorems
3. Trigonometry: sine, cosine, and the like; this was covered in my second year algebra in the states
4. Some sort of "precalculus" course: Really, in the states, this is just a course which makes sure you have the basics down before you go to calculus: it makes sure you can manipulate equations, graph a lot of functions, etc. So I don't think you have this, judging from our discussion so far, and it's likely that, if we don't need to start earlier, we need to start here. |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:33 am Post subject: |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 2684
Location: UKGBNI, England, Derbyshire
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Your 1a Number is all the algebra I have done  . I don't have a problem with those topics either, but the problem is I have REAL difficulty rearranging formulas.
On a personal note, I've always liked maths. Its the only topic next to physics I don't find boring .
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| serpicojr |
| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
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So the moral of the story is you need to learn a lot of math. You have difficulty rearranging equations because you haven't done much math which requires you to do so. And you're probably not at a point in your math education where you can sit down and teach yourself without significant input from someone else.
If you were living in the states, I'd say take a course in basic algebra at a community college. I have no idea what sorts of similar things exist in the UK. One thing you can try: find a basic algebra text, online or in print, and start working through it. Come to this forum and ask us questions. We'll be more than happy to help.
I have to warn you: it could be a serious time investment before you're really ready to do calculus. |
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| william |
| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
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| serpicojr wrote: |
| One thing you can try: find a basic algebra text, online or in print, and start working through it. |
I have had some luck finding old algebra and calculus texts at thrift stores (where they sell used items like clothes, nick-nacks, and of course, books). I have found a few for as cheap as 50 cents (compare that to about $100 for new texts...).
The library is also an option, but I personally like to own my books as I like to write in the margins and underline/circle things.
Good luck 425,
william
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| Cold Fusion |
| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Forum Bachelors Degree
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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Location: In the circuitous haze of my mind
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Really, the pre-calculus course I took a few years ago, and nearly failed, had nothing to do with the AP physics class I took later. I got an A in the physics class and a D- in the math class. Maybe it is just because the school district I reside in is that messed up?
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| serpicojr |
| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
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| Which AP physics did you take--B or C? And how did you do in calculus? |
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