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Attiyah Zahdeh
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:53 am    Post subject: Attiyah's Blue Sky Reply with quote

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Attiyah's Blue Sky

I know that scientists attribute the blue color of the clear sky to Rayleigh scattering. However, I have my own new theory that I entitled "Attiyah's blue sky". "Attiyah's blue sky" theory has seven main hypotheses.

(1) The blueness of the sky is due to two major factors: the blue color of ozone, and the blue emissions of the global daytime auroras; and to three minor factors: Rayleigh scattering, the noctilucent clouds and argon gas.

Details:

A- The blue color of ozone gas in both the stratosphere and mesosphere is the first major factor that can account for the greatest portion of the blueness of the sky.

B- The second major factor that contributes considerably to the blueness of the sky is the blue emissions of the global daytime auroras.

C- Rayleigh scattering, noctilucent clouds and argon gas contribute slightly to the sky blueness.

(2)The blueness of the sky concerns four atmospheric layers: the troposphere, the stratosphere, the mesosphere (including the ionospheric D-layer) and the ionospheric E-layer. Details:

First, regarding the troposphere:

A- Its contribution to the blueness of the sky is almost slight. This slight contribution is largely due to Rayleigh scattering. This contribution gives the troposphere only very faint blue appearance.
B- Its variable contents affect the vividness of the blueness of the overlying atmospheric layers or conceal it.

Second, regards the stratosphere:

A- The blue color of the stratospheric ozone is the main contributor to the sky blueness of the sky as viewed from on the ground or outer space.
B- The ice of the stratospheric clouds such as the nacreous clouds has a minor contribution.
C- Argon atoms have a very minor contribution.
D- Due to the presence of different molecules other than ozone molecules, Rayleigh scattering plays a minor role.

Third, regarding the mesosphere (including the ionospheric D-layer):

A- The diurnal, global auroras in the D-layer continuously emit some blue spectra. B- The electric discharges relevant to the occurrence of auroras lead to the production of the ozone of the upper ozonosphere. This ozone content contributes significantly to the blueness of the sky.
C- The ice of the noctilucent clouds has a minor contribution.

Fourth, regarding the ionospheric E-layer:
The auroras that occur in the daytime E-layer give blue light globally and continuously.


(3) The main effect of Rayleigh scattering is not played on the blue waves in the direct solar light, but instead it is played on the main blueness of the sky that is due to the blue color of the ozone molecules in both the stratosphere and mesosphere, and to the blue emissions of the continuous daytime auroras, especially of the lower ionosphere.


(4) With respect to the Earth-stationed observers, the main effect of Rayliegh scattering on the atmosphere, particularly on the troposphere i.e. on the substratospheric gases, is not the enhancement of the apparent heavenly blueness, but instead this main effect is the dilution of the blueness.


(5) The dilution of the apparent blueness of the sky caused by Rayliegh scattering is directly proportional to the length of the line of sight in the troposphere. In other words, the dilution of the apparent heavenly blueness increases from overhead towards horizon.


(6) The dilution of the blueness of the stratosphere almost helps uncover the ionospheric layers overlying it. At the same time, the blue auroral emissions from the lower ionosphere decrease greatly.


(7) The orange or red horizons at sunset and sunrise are almost due to the orange and red emissions from the daytime auroras in the ionospheric F-layer. These red and orange emissions from the F-layer auroras can outshine the Rayleigh-scattering-diluted blueness.

Evidence


http://www.bom.gov.au/info/climate/change/gallery/3.shtml


Were Rayleigh scattering the main cause of the blue appearance of the sky, the blueness should be nearly restricted to the troposphere, because about 80% of the Rayleigh scattering gases are present in it. However, when seen from the planes that fly in the highest regions of the troposphere, the troposphere itself does not show the familiar blue appearance of the sky. As well, the photos taken for the troposphere from satellites and space shuttles do not show it having the normal blue appearance of the sky as viewed from on the ground or from the outer space.

In addition to, one can see the normal blueness of the sky above the troposphere through the gaps between the clouds that are formed at the highest level of the troposphere itself. Even if the highest levels of the troposphere are full of white cirrus clouds, the troposphere under them does not seem blue. Moreover, astronauts did not give any reports about seeing a blue troposphere especially over arts of the land far from the vast oceanic waters.
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wert
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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DO you also have a theory for why the night sky is black ??
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Selene
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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wert wrote:
DO you also have a theory for why the night sky is black ??


I always found the sky at night to be more of a very dark blue

but then colour, as with any visual perception by the brain is a subjective experience.
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Dishmaster
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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This is utter nonsense! Raleigh scattering can sufficiently explain the blue sky. There is no need to introduce anything else (Ockhams razor, look it up). Before you babble around so eloquently about different additional influences, please provide some calculations that clearly prove your claims! I suspect that these additional phenomena, if they work at all, contribute only a negligable amount. What is the ratio of intensities?

Just one final remark. A theory means: A hypothesis with a list of verifyable and falsifyable predictions, both qualitativle as well as quantitavely. Otherwise it's just chit chat. And simple images from the web, where nobody actually knows how they are made or processed and what is actually seen, are not sufficient.
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thyristor
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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How do you know that ozon's blue?
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Attiyah Zahdeh
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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thyristor wrote:
How do you know that ozon's blue?


Thanks

Please read here:

Ozone gas is decidedly blue, and both liquid and solid ozone are an opaque blue-black color, similar to that of ink. See also Oxygen.
Some properties of ozone are given in the table. Ozone has a characteristic, pungent odor familiar to most persons because ozone is formed when electrical apparatus produces sparks in air. Ozone is irritating to mucous membranes and toxic to human beings and lower animals.
Ozone occurs to a variable extent in the Earth's atmosphere. Near the Earth's surface the concentration is usually 0.02–0.03 ppm in country air, and less in cities except when there is smog. At vertical elevations above 13 mi (20 km), ozone is formed by photochemical action on atmospheric oxygen. Maximum concentration of 5 × 1012 molecules/cm3 (more than 1000 times the normal peak concentration at Earth's surface) occurs at an elevation of 19 mi (30 km).
http://www.answers.com/topic/ozone?cat=technology
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Dishmaster
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Attiyah Zahdeh wrote:

http://www.answers.com/topic/ozone?cat=technology

Hi, this link clearly mentions that in concentrations as found in the atmosphere, ozone is colourless. Only pure ozone in gaseous form has a pale blue colour, as it is written there. So, you only recognise the facts that suit you best?
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Attiyah Zahdeh
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Dishmaster wrote:
Attiyah Zahdeh wrote:

http://www.answers.com/topic/ozone?cat=technology

Hi, this link clearly mentions that in concentrations as found in the atmosphere, ozone is colourless. Only pure ozone in gaseous form has a pale blue colour, as it is written there. So, you only recognise the facts that suit you best?


Show me any photo such that the troposphere itself is blue!
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Dishmaster
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Attiyah Zahdeh wrote:

Show me any photo such that the troposphere itself is blue!


Look out of your window, man!

You are claiming something, so you must come up with a proof.

1. How can you justify to separate the blueness of the sky into different layers of the atmosphere?

2. If you can show the first point, you must also show that - as you write - ozone is the main contributer. What is your proof? Numbers please! Pictures are no proof. As I wrote, your own reference says something different. What is the colour of the sky at the south pole, where we have the ozone hole? Why is the air not glowing blue during (heavy) smog, where lots of ozone is produced?

3. In one of your other postings you mention the aurora. You also say - as the links you cite confirm - that it is emitting in the UV. How can this produce blue skies?

4. Rayleigh scattering occurs not only at the gas molecules, but mainly at water vapour. There is lots of it. What is your argument, why this is not sufficient to produce the blue sky? You do know that this phenomenon is a result of a line of sight effect. Of course you cannot see your environment in a blue light. It takes kilometres of air and water vapour to add on. This is why it seems to be so far away. Again: Numbers please!

5. Why does the atmosphere seem colourless when seen from space? Wouldn't every nice picture of the fully lit earth made from ISS, Shuttles, etc. have a pale blue shine, if the colour were due to gas emission? How is it possible that we see the surface at all? Since it is known that forward scattering is much more efficient than backward scattering (you can verify this on a hazy day and a light source), it easily can explain this observation. The light source is the sun. On earth, we see the forward scattering, from space it would be backward scattering.
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Attiyah Zahdeh
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Dishmaster wrote:
Attiyah Zahdeh wrote:

Show me any photo such that the troposphere itself is blue!


Look out of your window, man!

You are claiming something, so you must come up with a proof.

1. How can you justify to separate the blueness of the sky into different layers of the atmosphere?

2. If you can show the first point, you must also show that - as you write - ozone is the main contributer. What is your proof? Numbers please! Pictures are no proof. As I wrote, your own reference says something different. What is the colour of the sky at the south pole, where we have the ozone hole? Why is the air not glowing blue during (heavy) smog, where lots of ozone is produced?

3. In one of your other postings you mention the aurora. You also say - as the links you cite confirm - that it is emitting in the UV. How can this produce blue skies?

4. Rayleigh scattering occurs not only at the gas molecules, but mainly at water vapour. There is lots of it. What is your argument, why this is not sufficient to produce the blue sky? You do know that this phenomenon is a result of a line of sight effect. Of course you cannot see your environment in a blue light. It takes kilometres of air and water vapour to add on. This is why it seems to be so far away. Again: Numbers please!

5. Why does the atmosphere seem colourless when seen from space? Wouldn't every nice picture of the fully lit earth made from ISS, Shuttles, etc. have a pale blue shine, if the colour were due to gas emission? How is it possible that we see the surface at all? Since it is known that forward scattering is much more efficient than backward scattering (you can verify this on a hazy day and a light source), it easily can explain this observation. The light source is the sun. On earth, we see the forward scattering, from space it would be backward scattering.


Show me any photo from space such that the troposphere itself is blue!
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Dishmaster
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Attiyah Zahdeh wrote:

Show me any photo from space such that the troposphere itself is blue!


As I said. I can't, because it is not. Not a single picture from space directly looking towards the earth's surface shows a blue shimmer (as we see it from the earth). I explained it already (backward/forward scattering). But wouldn't they show it, if the aurora would be significant or there were some blue gas somewhere in the atmosphere?
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