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charles brough
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:07 am    Post subject: ARE we crowding the Earth? Reply with quote

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ARE WE CROWDING THE EARTH?

The environmental problems that are of so much concern to the people of the world do not necessarily mean that the Earth's resources are less but that we are more. It is hard to dispute that, but the dire predictions made decades ago have not been born out. When world population was much smaller, we were then described as being “over-crowded.” The worry over “over-crowding” is no longer a popular concern. It might seem that with the right technology, we could pile up our numbers indefinitely. By living in high rise buildings, we would never even be limited in space---never have to be jammed together. In that sense, there could be room for one hundred billion of us . . .

So, it seems that it all depends upon our technological ability to keep compensating for the continuing decline in per capita resources. Can we depend upon science and technology? If we continue to elect “born again” presidents and be taking in Pat Robertson-trained people into the bureaucracy, fight an increasingly intense rear-guard action to keep “creationism” out of our schools, face mounting proposals to teach Christianity in the schools, and have more mainstream movies appearing on religious subjects, might we have cause to wonder if public opinion isn't shifting away from science and technology?

Here is another consideration: is being jammed together the only definition of “over-crowded”? There are a number of animal species that undergo a population crash in numbers when they reach a certain population level. They are not necessarily stressing their environment and not starving to death or dieing of the usual diseases. In some cases, the adrenal glands show us that they die of stress. One way to interpret this is that they felt over-crowded.

How do we know when a species feels over-crowded? Does that happen with us? What conditions have to materialize before we feel over-crowded? This has been researched and tests with young adults and all indications are that they do not feel over-crowded. I have personally observed in some Asian countries that people like to crowd together. In Indonesia, for example, the whole concept of “privacy” is alien to the great mass of people. We seem strange to them for wanting it, but we do. We in the West need time alone in order to relax.

This raises the question of why stress seems to abundant in our modern society. Has it something to do with feeling over-crowded? Rats and mice have been shown to exhibit so much stress from feeling over-crowded that they experience a behavioral deterioration. It has nothing to do with hunger but just being too close. We humans have a space of a couple of feet from us that we feel uncomfortable when someone else breaches it. In the desert, two strangers meeting will not approach more than ten to twenty feet from each other. Relatives will get to within a foot or so before anyone becomes uneasy. Could this be what drives the rats and mice to unsocial behavior? Keep in mind that, at the risk of being insulting, rats and mice have much in common with us and helps explain why they are used so much in medical research.

I would like to suggest that there is yet another thing that has a bearing on “crowding.” I propose that we feel crowded in direct proportion to how much we are ideologically divided. It is hard to feel close to someone who has an entirely different picture of human origins, who figures we humans have a goal which you do not regard as credible, follow a different moral system and figure the failure of mankind to achieve those goals is caused by something entirely different from what you believe!


Charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com
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marnixR
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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imo we're already living with the consequences of overcrowding : environmental degradation, global warming, species in danger of extinction would not be nearly so severe with a world population of 3 billion rather than the current 6 billion +

aggression, ethnic cleansing, terrorism and globalisation are further consequences of overcrowding (or at the very least exacerbated by it)

a few good articles on the subject in today's Sunday Times :

We have to know when to stop
The long-distance motorcyclist sees a planet changed, 30 years on
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Cat1981(England)
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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What, though, was the human population before we developed any technology's ? It would be impossible to turn our backs on technology now without losing 99.9% of the human race.

--------------

"aggression, ethnic cleansing, terrorism and globalisation" You can find examples of those all the way though history, so i would not agree that they are consequences of overcrowding but i do agree that they are increased by overcrowding.

Thanks for the links BTW.
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marnixR
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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no-one's saying we should go back to a non-existing bucolic age - however, technology can only help us this far : the world population needs to kept in check otherwise no amount of techology will be able to help us
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Cat1981(England)
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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The worlds population has gone from 10,000 to 6 billion with the aid of technology. So why couldn't it support a higher human population ?
As i understand it, the human population is dictated to us by our level of technology.
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marnixR
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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that is assuming that you find a replacement resource once you used up the previous one ...

[edit]
and as far as i understand it, it's not only technology that enables population growth - there's also such a thing as sex ...
[/edit]
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starlight
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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If women are not allowed to get pregnant until they turn 21, this would be a good thing. In this way they will be more ready. There will be less problems and they will be more mature. And probably the strict rule on womens right to abortion would not be necessary. Abortion would most likely be about rape and the mother's health. This would control the population too.
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Cat1981(England)
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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The worlds population LEVEL cannot exceed the resources it can provide at any-one time, i think we can all agree on that.

There is though 3 main groups when we are talking about population growth, first the western world or developed countrys who after a century or two of rapid population growth have seen their populations level off, some times growing slightly (USA) some times falling (Europe). Then we have developing countrys (China, India etc) who are in the period we were in 25-250 years ago, over the last 50-100 years those countrys have had access to education, medical care, increased production etc, general increasing standards of living. This of course means that old ratios of high birth rate - high death rate, have been replaced with high birth rate - low death rate, except (most importantly) in the upper and upper middle class's of those countrys where low or at lest lower birth rates is becoming the norm. In theory (and what has happened in practise) increasing standards of living has seen populations increase, sometimes at breakneck speeds, but in the end once the population and technology have reached their own balance population growth should slow down to developed countrys levels. This also applies to the third world.

Apart from a super volcano, meteorite the size of Russia or some other uncontrollable event, the only problem i can see would be global warming which is in our ability to solve. Its not that we have suddenly started to shag like rabbits in the last couple of hundred of years, people are simply surviving better and living longer, this is all down to the technology's we have developed, we just need to solve any problem this has coursed calmly and reasonably, raise the working age, build new houses with a bit of consideration for the people that will be living there etc. New technology's will replace old one when the time is right, already we are starting (although slowly) to replace oil, coal and gas with cleaner and in the long run cheaper and safer alternatives.

Although we may act like rats we do have one advantage, which is that we have brains, perhaps we should start using them.
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marnixR
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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what concerns me most about china and india is not just the fact that their populations are still growing at a fair rate, but the consequences of their aspiration to achieve a western standard of living

we don't exactly have the moral high ground to tell these countries that they can't aspire to higher standard of living, but think of the consequences should that aspiration be achieved, even in the absence of an increase in population : their ecological footprint would multiply by a factor of about 10, meaning that the impact they have on the environment is equivalent to a tenfold population increase

the mind boggles ...
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Cat1981(England)
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Agreed. I hope that with the health, social and eco' issues that are obviously becoming problems for them countrys concerned, that they try and take advantage of the fact that their economy's are still growing and have the ability to continue to grow cleanly and with consideration for the people. A chance Europe sadly didn't take after the second world war when we had the chance.
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